The thing that excites me about a Mainoo-Santos pivot is that they are both press-resistant, secure, technical and accurate passers. That should give United real control in the centre of the pitch.
One of the big weaknesses under Carrick last season was against determined mid or low blocks. We often had plenty of possession but struggled to break teams down. Mainoo and Santos together could be excellent for those specific games because they should raise the technical floor and reduce cheap turnovers in central areas.
The downside is that neither of them is especially big, dominant in the air, or a real ground-covering athlete. So the question becomes: can they control territory and transitions? Can they survive a winter midweek away at Newcastle or Sunderland?
That is where Ederson makes sense. His athleticism, vertical running, ground coverage and near-elite ground duelling are exactly why the data department will be licking their lips. He looks like a very useful player for physical away games, Champions League matches where his experience matters, and as a late-game sub who can charge around like a lunatic for the final 25 minutes and help see games out.
The strongest single quality Casemiro gave United was his aerial ability in both boxes. Especially in today’s Premier League, I really think that needs replacing. None of Mainoo, Santos or Ederson are strong in the air. So for me, the final midfielder has to bring size, steel and presence — the kind of big, nasty duel-winner you need away at Everton.
Wharton does not really offer that, I'm unconvinced that Baleba does either, not to mention both would be massively overpriced. Options seem limited, so I suspect the smart move is a shopping trip in Europe for a Thuram, Agoumé or Chema type profile. I’m fascinated to see who they go for.
Midfield Balance
I love reading stuff like this, Remi. But part of me is always wary of data, even if it's getting better all the time and it's become normal in football. Look at Liverpool last summer, spending big but the players had great data too. They thought they were strengthening having won the league but it was much of a muchness in the end.
Can't pretend to know much at all about the incomings, but my feeling is that we need someone who is more than just a busy fucker next to Mainoo. Fred was a busy fucker but unreliable. Ugarte is as busy as it gets and has half a brain. Ederson seems the right profile but Serie A is nowhere near as physical so I reckon that props up his stats a lot. Maybe Santos is the one? Hard ask for him to displace Caicedo and Fernandez is a completely different type of player so we can forgive him a bit for not being a regular at Chelsea.
Said it in the other thread and I'll say it again, thoroughly agree that a 3rd CM has to be good in the air. Don't know much about Agoume or Chema but Thuram comes up all the time with the tacticos. I still think Sander Berge would be a great option. Him and one of Ederson or Santos to fight the physical Prem teams, then Mainoo for more control in Europe and against select Prem teams.
It's all theory until we see it play out. How many times have we expected something from a player and they've been shite in the end.
Can't pretend to know much at all about the incomings, but my feeling is that we need someone who is more than just a busy fucker next to Mainoo. Fred was a busy fucker but unreliable. Ugarte is as busy as it gets and has half a brain. Ederson seems the right profile but Serie A is nowhere near as physical so I reckon that props up his stats a lot. Maybe Santos is the one? Hard ask for him to displace Caicedo and Fernandez is a completely different type of player so we can forgive him a bit for not being a regular at Chelsea.
Said it in the other thread and I'll say it again, thoroughly agree that a 3rd CM has to be good in the air. Don't know much about Agoume or Chema but Thuram comes up all the time with the tacticos. I still think Sander Berge would be a great option. Him and one of Ederson or Santos to fight the physical Prem teams, then Mainoo for more control in Europe and against select Prem teams.
It's all theory until we see it play out. How many times have we expected something from a player and they've been shite in the end.
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Remi Moses
- First Teamer
- Posts: 122
- Joined: 1 year ago
I think the effectiveness of using data intelligently has been proven, and it now seems to be one of the main tools used by elite recruitment departments. But it is also extremely complicated and very easy to use superficially.
The art of data analysis is not just finding attractive numbers; it is contextualising them. How confident can you really be that Ederson’s Serie A data will transfer to the Premier League? How do you separate genuine underlying quality from system effects, league effects, role effects and tactical environment?
This summer should tell us a lot about whether United’s “best in class” recruitment department really knows what it is doing, or whether they simply failed upwards last summer.
Santos and Ederson both look like data-led signings: relatively cheap, profile-specific and immediately doubted by a large section of the fanbase. If they come off, it will be very impressive indeed.
The art of data analysis is not just finding attractive numbers; it is contextualising them. How confident can you really be that Ederson’s Serie A data will transfer to the Premier League? How do you separate genuine underlying quality from system effects, league effects, role effects and tactical environment?
This summer should tell us a lot about whether United’s “best in class” recruitment department really knows what it is doing, or whether they simply failed upwards last summer.
Santos and Ederson both look like data-led signings: relatively cheap, profile-specific and immediately doubted by a large section of the fanbase. If they come off, it will be very impressive indeed.
Looks good when you just select those stats. What that doesn't tell you it he played about the same minutes as Mount, even if he technically had more appearances.
I'm not trying to say he'll be shit, but I want to see him play a bit for us first.
Everyone is assuming Mainoo's place is fixed but I'm not so sure he should start for us. He was poor under Amorim and pretty good under Carrick. He's understandably not getting any minutes in the world cup. He needs to improve by A LOT to be a top player. He's not close. He's got the talent.
Disclaimer: This post is likely to be WUMming. Irritate yourself with it at your own risk
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Remi Moses
- First Teamer
- Posts: 122
- Joined: 1 year ago
Of course, you really never know whether any signing will work, but this is clearly what the data department are looking at. I'm feeling confident that at a minimum he will be a useful player.
He should have started against Ghana. I think we would have been more effective at opening them up if he'd been on the pitch.dozer wrote: ↑2 months ago Everyone is assuming Mainoo's place is fixed but I'm not so sure he should start for us. He was poor under Amorim and pretty good under Carrick. He's understandably not getting any minutes in the world cup. He needs to improve by A LOT to be a top player. He's not close. He's got the talent.
Yeah Dozer is chatting out of his bumhole, Mainoo is great. He doesn't need to be a "top player" he just needs to keep being as good as he has been and improve naturally with experience. Will we have to move on to elite players to win top pots again? Maybe. But we're a long way off having 5 elite players, never mind the days of old where we'd have 8-9
If he improves, great. In his current avatar, he's not good enough to be an automatic starter for us, or rather shouldn't be after the transfer window if we buy well.Felwin wrote: ↑2 months ago Yeah Dozer is chatting out of his bumhole, Mainoo is great. He doesn't need to be a "top player" he just needs to keep being as good as he has been and improve naturally with experience. Will we have to move on to elite players to win top pots again? Maybe. But we're a long way off having 5 elite players, never mind the days of old where we'd have 8-9
Disclaimer: This post is likely to be WUMming. Irritate yourself with it at your own risk