Sir Alex Ferguson will offer Manchester United’s youngsters another opportunity to impress as his side takes on Crystal Palace at Old Trafford on Wednesday. Kids Ravel Morrison, Paul Pogba and Ezekiel Fryers could all feature against the mid-table Championship club, as the Reds seek a place in the Carling Cup semi-final for the sixth time in 10 years.
Indeed, Ferguson, who has won the tournament four times during his reign at Old Trafford, is likely to name a side with 11 changes from that which drew with Newcastle United at the weekend. But the question on many fans lips is whether Morrison, Pogba et al will start against Palace at Old Trafford, with Ferguson having used his younger players sparingly in previous rounds of the tournament this season.
Yet with injuries biting into the Scot’s squad, and Palace set to field several changes, there is unlikely to be a better opportunity for United’s youngsters to star in the first team this season.
“There will be complete change, just the same as we had at Leeds and Aldershot,” said Ferguson.
“Ravel Morrison was in the squad for Wednesday’s game [against Benfica]. He’s a very, very talented boy, of course, and he’ll possibly be on the bench, at least, in midweek. But I’ve got other players needing a game like Mame Biram Diouf and Federico Macheda.
“All the younger players [will come in] – Zeki Fryers, the two Da Silvas [Rafael and Fabio] are possibles. Chris Smalling has come back and I may be able to play him on Wednesday. He’s still young and it’ll be a young squad against Palace. The only area where I’ve got problems is centre midfield. It’s possible I could play Pogba in there but we’ll wait and see. I’ve got enough players to choose from, that’s for sure.”
The prospect of Morrison and Pogba, in particular, featuring against Palace is an attractive one. However, neither started ties against Aldershot Town or Leeds United, with Ferguson preferring to offer game time to fringe squad players. The pair may well start on the bench, even counting injuries to Tom Cleverley and Anderson, with Darren Fletcher and Michael Carrick certain to be rested. In to the side is likely to come Darron Gibson and Park Ji-Sung.
Elsewhere, Rafael da Silva could make a long-awaited return to first team action after recovering from a shoulder injury, while Chris Smalling should start his first game in a month. Striker Federico Macheda will make his first start of the season.
“I think the League Cup has turned into quite a good tournament,” added Ferguson.
“Clubs like United are able to introduce young players and ones who have not been playing regularly in the first team and it’s been good to us over the years. We’ve won two finals at Wembley with young players, which is good going, and I think it’s become an important tournament for us in terms of getting the youngsters an introduction into winning.
“The reserves’ league is more of an extended youth league but we rectify that by putting players on loan. We’ve got quite a lot of players on loan this year, as we have every year, most of the 19 and 20-year-olds. The nucleus of the youth team last year have all had first-team experience this season. They’ve all been involved in the League Cup and travelled to European games with us. It’s valuable experience for the younger ones.”
Meanwhile, 10th placed Palace heads north with one eye on a key Championship game with Derby County on Friday night. Star winger Darren Ambrose is expected to be in the starting line-up, but Jonathan Williams is absent following a broken leg. Lee Hills and Alex Marrow are also out with injury.
Injuries and changes are unlikely to aid a Palace side that has managed just one win in the last five matches. Moreover, Dougie Freedman’s outfit has not scored a goal for 485 minutes. If that record isn’t foreboding enough for the south London team, then Palace’s record against United will bring little comfort – the club has not won at Old Trafford since 1989.
“I’ve told my players to go there and come away better players,” said 37-year-old Palace manager Freedman.
“This is an experience that you have got to soak up, you’ve got to enjoy it, you’ve got to work hard and be proud of your performance and what will be will be. That is exactly what I’ve told my players and that is exactly what I am going to do myself. You’ve got to make yourself and your family proud of your performance if you’re representing this club and that is what I ask of my players – to make themselves and their families proud of them playing there and coming away from it as a better player.”
The fixture recalls memories of the epic FA Cup final ties with Palace in 1990, not least the replay victory that ended Ferguson’s search for a first trophy with the club. The two matches were dramatic and, at times, stomach churning to watch for United supporters. Indeed, with United coming very close to blowing the first game, the past 20 years could have been very different if Palace had won the tie and Ferguson not secured silverware. Without victory, the pressure to dismiss the Scot that summer may have been unbearable.
No such pressure exists on Wednesday of course. Victory over Palace will simply increase United’s fixture calendar by two games in February – possibly against Manchester City or Liverpool, who won quarter final ties at Arsenal and Chelsea on Tuesday.
Manchester United versus Crystal Palace, Carling Cup, Old Trafford, Wednesday 30 November 2011, 7.45pm
United (4-4-1-1): Lindegaard; Rafael, Fryers, Smalling, Fabio; Valencia, Gibson, Park, Diouf; Berbatov, Macheda. Subs from: De Gea, Amos, Jones, Fletcher, Carrick, Young, Hernandez, Evans, Keane, Rooney, Pogba, Morrison.
Palace (4-5-1): Price; Clyne, McCarthy, Ramage, Parr; O’Keefe, Wright
Zaha, Ambrose, Scannell; Easter. Subs from: Speroni, Moxey, Gardner, Jedinak, Zaha, Murray, C Martin, Garvan, Price, Dikgacoi, Iversen, Marrow, Cadogan, , Pedroza, Sekajja.
Referee: Chris Foy (St. Helens)
Assistants: Richard West, Bobby Pollock
Fourth Official: Neil Swarbrick
253 thoughts on “Sir Fergie promises kids Palace outing”
Ed – Your projected lineup is crap, but it is just weak and pointless enough to be correct. I notice that you don’t have either Pogba or Morrison in the squad.
Sir Alex talks about “younger players” before going on to list the twins and Smalling. While they are young players, they are not the youth the supporters want to see given a run out in the Carling Cup. Smalling has been deputizing for Rio quite capably since last season, and if the twins could stay healthy, one of them would be starting at Right Back every game. What do Diouf and Macheda need games for, to be showcased like Gibson and possibly increase their value in time for the January transfer window? How much could Gibson’s value possibly climb that it is worth alienating Pogba?
Leave Gibson out, start Pogba, and when Diouf proves to have nothing to offer on the left, slide Park over to that side and bring on Morrison.
They should be in the squad (corrected) but I doubt either will start
pogba will come on for the last 30 minutes, and Morrisson the last 10
Team is: Amos Rafael Smalling Evans Fabio Valencia Gibson Park Diouf Berbatov Macheda
Pogba, Fryers and Morrison on the bench. FFS.
looks like its going to be 1 long night again
Unbelievable! I’m reading news reports claiming Pogba will be given his first full debut, but no, it’s Gibson who plays. That would be the useless piece of shit we tried to flog in the summer, but the bastard priced himself out of a move to Sunderland and then injured himself before the window closed. I know the Carling Cup is United’s best chance at silverware this season, but that’s no reason to start Gibson before Pogba.
I just cannot fathom why Gibson, Diouf and Macheda start over our youngsters. Can you seriously tell me they have more of a future at United than any of them?
Where did you take this line-up from gents?
Morrison, Pogba in the line-up, not on the bench.
And no Gibson which is brilliant.
Are you in denial?
tbf, gibtwat has scored a few in this competition
I double checked it on the official site, plus the same lineup is given on Soccernet.
yeah you’re right, sorry
the shittest line-up ever.
Bringing back Gibson is a joke
No Pogba and no Morrison in the starting lineup
this is a palace side who havent scored for 5 games and credit to them, they are attacking with intent
There won’t be another game this season where Pogba or Morrison can start
So they must be really, really far off being ready
Park makes me feel sick….
Diouf has the first touch of a Tevez.
wonder when u’d emerge outta uncles crack
I see no valid reason to start Gibson over Pogba.
Pogba is considered a bright prospect… that other European teams have their eye on… hoping he’ll get restless…
And instead, Ferguson plays Gibson… who will never… ever… in this lifetime or any other… be a genuine United starter.
Where is the logic?
What a fecking joke. Too many players in this line up who don’t deserve to wear the shirt.
Wouldn’t surprise me if pogba signs elsewhere next year if he’s behind Gibson oin the pecking order. Rubbish.
no fucking passion at all from united
no one wants the ball in our team
And what happens if we don’t get a lead with this lot?
Then the young lads may not get on at all, as Ferguson tries to find a winner.
Gibson starts because we desperately need him now that we only have 2 fit central midfielders
He needs games
It’s embarassing for us and him
Listen fuck wit, at the moment it’s still..
BUT you must raise your game and tbf it was a quote from Cap not Knobhead!
SAF is a lying cunt. All the talk of Ravel and Pogba purely to sell tickets. Fucking Glazer bum boy
thats as maybe but you didnt have to jump on the anti han band wagon did u?
they will come on 2nd half cos this is abject bollocks served by our shadow 1st team
brian’s spread his cheeks for u
usual bollockless fare served up by this shite line up
tbf unless you hush I’ll be driving the fucking wagon!!
Now your points are slipping further.
At this rate, United to win 1-0 in extra time or go out on penalties. What shite!
fabio is a dipshit at times
now on a yellow and that zaha is going to go for him even more
Fergie’s reaction to Diouf heh
he needs to bring that into the dressing room at h/t with this shite served up by these knobs
Fabio injured. Again.
This is fuckin gross!
We have fucking dropped so much quality it’s a joke!
What’s Gibson doing tripping that fella
1 shot on target after 38 mins
what a fucking joke
come on united, were better than this. or are we.
I’d rather the kids play and we lose… than win with turnips like Gibson, Park and Doofus.
I’d rather the kids play and we lose… than win with turnips like Gibson, Park and Doofus.
“Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don’t need badges. I don’t have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching’ tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you.”
unlucky diouf there
Take Diouf and Macheda off, put Pogba and Morrison on; this is total shit!
In all seriousness Fergie is not a stupid man…HE MUST see how shit some of these players are.
Not playing the kids makes this nothing more than a 90 minute fitness test for the squaddies
save for valencia, that was probably the worst collective effort so far this season
berbatov needs to grow a pair 2nd half
gibson and macheda just look lost out there
This is one fuckin horrible game…
sad to say but there have been more than several contenders recently for that title
This shite is seriously taking my love of football away from me…..
1 shot on target in the 1st half
ffs this is crystal knobbing palace at OT not barcelona at the nou camp
Morrison on for Berbatov!
morrison on for bulgaria
all of them on tonights form, berba.
Quality backheel from Morrison
fs mad red
theres plenty of cunts in red that should be sold before berba i can tell u
agree on that, but he looks like he dont care anymore.
jason roberts on radio 5 obviously has shite in his eyes
saying gibson is a good player ffs
oh valencia ffs missed
is he blind ffs.
It’s a save
and what would u do if the manager plays u in shite games or keeps u on the bench warming ur arse? he has been treated like lukewarm dog piss by SAF and its a wonder he hasn’t told everyone to fuck off
53 Min’s gone one shot on target, = shit.
Morrison is always moving, always in space
And when he gets it it sticks to his feet
he is special for sure
just hope he don’t room with gibcunt and doofus on away days
Look at the difference a bit of enthusiasm makes… Morrison…
stick the pog on to make it interesting
palace will tire as the 2nd half wears on so it would be a great opportunity for him to show OT what he is made of
Palace has dropped off this half
They were never going to keep that tempo up
Gibson has room now, and he’s playing quite well
Raph limping now
He’s shown a bit of nerves, but already Morrison has had two shots on target, and flicked a great ball to Macheda just now. WHY DIDNT HE START.
Poggy on for Rafael
even shit players play well when theres no pressure on them
come on united
What a goal
Wow… what a hit.
Darren Ambrose with a Darron Gibson type goal.
Ambrose always scores against United
Charlton, newcastle and now palace.
come on now reds
fucking finish them
Kiko pen 1-1
In his dreams.
we may wake up now.
focus ffs united
10 mins left
Come on United.
We’re going to be light years behind City in a year or two!!
I’m aghast at Park… Honestly te worst footballer I’ve seen in a united shirt.
to name just 2 of the starting 11 who deserve that accolade way before Park
morrison wasted a golden oppurtunity there. should have passed it to macheda.
I hope Amos can save penalties
30 more mins of this bollocks
please no, cant take anymore, Liverpool city and Cardiff, must be shitting themselves.
palace look tired and bound to make errors and that is the only way we will score
no magic at all
One moment of quality and its over
But penalties will be a good test of mental strength for the young uns
hey, whats the worry…our midfield is soooo strong we will win all 4 trophies
and berbatov is a keeper too…so ace…..
Pogba has been dreadful both occasions I’ve seen him play. Though our midfield has looked much better. The strikers have been absolutely toothless.
One of the best goals I’ve ever see that
Parks is having a shocker but why is he at right back instead of Valencia? Swap places and we’d get the width we need.
Fucks sake park
good play that – palace are tiring
Even when Gibson is shit, even when he doesn’t move, even when he doesn’t pass… at least he shoots
your favorite player nearly scored
come on lads keep the pressure up
aye like a 12 year old in the playground
Fuck me, saw it coming. Let’s hope they give us another soft penalty. Evans again the ponce.
fuck off u cunts
we are fucked
Great ball in tbf
Evans really is fucking poor.
and i thought park was ur favorite cunt
who was the cunt who was behind that palace cart horse – a free header!
come on, respond you twats
Evans does nothing there
That isn’t defending
we will get chances im sure to score
G-bomb is getting close! still pissed off that Brucey didn’t offer him enough dollar.
FUCK ME OUR ATTACK IS COMPLETELY FUCKING TOOTHLESS. Where the fuck is berba, Owen, ANYONE that can fucking shoot straight. How the fuck did diouf get anywhere near this fucking team sheet?!
FFS, YOU HAVE TO HIT THE TARGET FROM THERE
Evans made Carton Cole look like Drogba last year at this stage
come on united
We need a new back room staff!!
movement lads – this is too much like arsenal – come on keep possession, they will crack!
just 1 piece of magic from a red shirt
come on reds
stick them on the pitch too cos they cant be as shite as this lot
So our first team is shite, our reserves are shite, and now our youth players are shite. Fucking hell.
Evans you cunt
we are man united, we do what we want
that word is so underused in this team
lets face it
even if we do get past palace, we’d get arse raped in the semis by city or the scousers and feel even worse
A new low for United.
Now that’s seeing the glass half full
It’s the Newcastle game all over again
ffs have a crack
How much did we pay for Valencia?
come one – they are shitting it
Is fryers drunk? What the fuck was that fall about
diouf you ass – come on one last chance
Lol Diouf is total shite
What a embarrassment the players are. Hobestly Evans, Park and Gibson are frauds!
Sounded like the commentator came then
This is his cup final
Understatement of the decade
fuck off, how far have we fallen.
credit to palace
we are so fucking clueless it is unbelievable
playing like knobless chickens
fucking jokers out there in red tonight
SAF needs to really get his head together for this season because this is a fucking sick joke the past 6 weeks
lol – doesn’t matter, i’ve seen enough of morrison and pogba to see that they are fwd thinking ball players rather than side shifting ball shufflers like G-bomb and Ando.
Evans, Gibson, macheda, diouf = CUNTS!
Fergie sort your shit out.
So perhaps Evra and Carrick can get more credit now.
So tonight we learned that even if we got relegated we still wouldn’t be certain to win the league.
Well that was awesome.
Fergusons analysis should be just as entertaining.
Could not do much about the first goal, second goal, Evans was a bit naive. The reason we lost it was there was no width and there was noone in midfield to switch it and ping it out wide.
It’s not as if we’ve just been found out – our second team have been terrible for ages – think Leeds in the FA Cup, CSKA and Besiktas at OT in the Champions League, West Ham in the CL last year, that dire 1-0 win against a non league team…..the list goes on and on.
Pogba and especially Morrison had their moments, but they’ve got a long way to go. Which is a shame, because we’re desperate for something in centre midfield.
*West Ham in the CC last year*
Well, I guess there’s no silverware coming our way this season. Smalling was by far United’s best player. There were a few others who just about did their job and not much more, but most of them were an embarrassment to the red shirt. Park was shit, Macheda was shittier, and Diouf was shittiest. Oh, and the number of times Gibson caused possession to be lost in the final third by not moving for the ball…
tbf evans is gonna be a support defender, diouf had no clue though – why the fuck was he always next to the corner flag?
pog and morrison were better than the regular shit such as gibcunt
thats the future
jettison the lazy fucks who dont deserve to wear the shirt and that includes evans who couldn’t defend to save his life when under pressure
gibson doesnt get it does he – no one likes u so please just fuck off
talk about stating the fucking obvious mate…its been like that all season
Morrison has to be given more games…he has soooo much ability…he actually can do flicks and tricks that actually come off and dont make him look like a show pony cunt
Great awareness of what is around him, and with your rooneys and err….rooneys of this world he will do very well…then evolve into awesome
It’s official I hate Evans, Park an G-Bomb more than Martin Platt now!
Anderson a side shifter? If anything he is overambitious with his passing.
I laughed when their second goal went in. By any measure, we are shit. Forget about the players representing us, we didn’t play like a Premier League team let alone like Manchester United. Even the first team would have played shite.
No doubt Fergie will come up with some bollocks excuse.
I’m waiting for us to qualify into the next round of the Champions League and then get battered by a decent team. Maybe another tonking will wake the manager up.
am i the only one who thought that pogba and morrison at least had the spirit to try and move the ball fwd and track back rather then side shuffle that was at least a positive.
can anyone seriously say that pogba or morrison would be materially worse than Anderson or Park in the middle?
just get these cunts in the next few games for the last 10 / 15 mins and see how they go
These are the times I hate our manager. I really hate stuff like this. First you start the match with that waste of space Berbatov who showed in the first half that he did not want to be there. Asking Macheda to play wide left. You then ask Gibson who had not played ALL season to partner Park in central midfield. What on earth was that all about? You immediately tell Palace that you really don’t care and they get the belief!
I am sorry, there is nothing about Pogba that has filled me with a sense of a great player in the making – I hope am hasty. I just felt like I was watching a car wreck and I have no idea what was going on. Can’t something happen to Phelan so he leaves? Or Berbatov so he also leaves? When you play Morrison who is obviously a deep lying forward and you do not have the energy of Welbeck ahead of him or proper width about him then what are we going to learn? Park at RB? Surely that was jest gone too far..
Am so very annoyed this night.
he wont be given the chance to shine
not sure why we were so fucking flat for 60 mins but id hazard a guess and say a fair few of those players need to look at themselves long and hard before putting on the red shirt again if ever
Gibson was probably the only player who looked like he wanted to try and score a goal. The rest of them were too busy stroking the ball around without any purpose.
Pogba… he does his bit, then walks. That’s what Gibson and Carrick do when they’re being cunts
He needs more to his game if he’s going to give us more than those two shithouses
Just being able to shoot and hit the target would be enough to see him get 2 or 3 years in our shite midfield FFS
that’s a fair point but if you watch anderson for the first 15 mins he will always look for a hollywood pass and almost never executes it. then he looses all confidence / gets tired because he is thinking about a BK Whoppers etc, and hides – and when he gets the ball shifts it backwards or sidewards.
wake up sheesh
we are going to get fucked next week and will be playing the likes of FC metalist kocks and maribor in europe come next year
serves us fucking right too with the shit SAF lets into play in games time and time again
I have been giving Pogba and Morrison much love. Morrison made more of an impression of the two, I thought. Pogba looked a little overawed. I feel sorry for these 2 players. They have the ability but throwing them on with the shite we have is like trying to sow a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.
Look at players like Scholes and Butt. They developed from playing around great players. Who have Morrison and Pogba got?
Morrison the only positive from tonight. And even he had some shite moments. Valencia acceptable. Smalling as good as ever. The rest = cunts
scouse cunts against the bitter cunts
ffs if we had got thru, we’d have had cardiff
but we do sort of, like Cal says, if you have Rooney or Welbeck in front you get the space that both these fellas can run into. Mecheda has no clue anymore – feel sorry for him.
add into the mix width of Nani, Cole + Valencia then you get the outlet on the wings with pace.
our defence with Vidic, Smalling + De Gea is relatively solid. In terms of wing backs Jones, Twins, Evra are all good.
honestly, Rooney/Welbeck infront of morrison, pogba with either carrick/fletcher behind them would be good.
fair enough that Pogy was a bit lazy but he is silky smooth.
City v Liverpool
City in the final then, facing either Palace or Cardiff
Another trophy for them
Cardiff would have battered us tbf
well what do u expect
they have unlimited funds
and we also gave them a nice gee up when we had the opportunity to knock them out in the fa cup and blew it last year
noisy neighbours who will haunt SAF until he retires
Never fear the trebles still on
sorry danni but i don’t agree with that attitude of his – ok if he has played 500 games in the 1st team then i’d give him slack but laziness is no excuse at his stage of career
he has done fuck all and can’t afford to act like a pri madonna – remember gibcunt had a promising start 2 seasons ago and let that get to his head
yep, let’s think positive …
can’t even be arsed to have a wank. what a shit wednesday evening – at least i have two beers left in the fridge.
the only treble is going to be of the whisky variety
well, the thing is he never looked under pressure so it cld be lazy or it cld be the fact that he wants out and is destined to go to france, citeh etc so indeed fuck him out I agree.
my point is a simple one – these two are not Viera and Pettit or Keane and Ince – but we have Fletcher with a disease, Carrick with only one Bollock and Park who playes like he’s had four cans of special brew.
what do you do? how do you stop the rot? play rooney in the middle? play giggs in the middle – ffs, bring back Scholes?
i’d rather us get whacked with our youth then get bummed with the old duffers.
fletcher, carrick, park, anderson and g-bomb – are not the future of the next club.
lets give these two a shot and see what they can do.
Why oh why didn’t we sign David Silva? Talk about a shot in the arm.
I had been screaming this for years. let the youth at it. Let them play. Watch how Frimpong and Coqueline stood tall against Ciddy last night. What is the point in make these young players look bad when you surround them with people who are struggling for form? Tell me one player tonight who would have gained anything from Berbatov’s disgraceful stroll around in the first half? We have let a fabulous talent like Macheda go stale. Morrison is 18 and coming on to 19 he does not need to wait any longer. why are we shouting about missing Cleverly when we can have him play in between the lines with Carrick and Fletcher behind him, Rooney in front of him, Nani and Young wide of him? As you all would have noticed no team plays a midfield duo anymore. So why not let Morrison play as our free man?
I am really annoyed with the current malaise that seems to be going on in the set-up currently. the only time Rooney should play in a midfield trio is if Welbeck is ahead of him. Hernandez is no use as sole striker and it will cause Rooney to abandon his position a lot. But with Morrison we have a natural for that position.
I got the impression that Pogba did not care at all so he is probably off. Not a problem. He can go.
Dear Sir Alex Ferguson, the 4-4-2 formation with two strikers and two central midfielders is DEAD. Please stop playing this. Thank you very much sir. Regards,
A Loyal Fan.
Am I the only one who thought Gibson played well?
He won the ball quite often and was the only one attempting to shoot – all good attempts too.
I would have liked to see him pass slightly better but he was quite good today.
Valencia should have been better, Berbatov was useless, Morrison is clearly not ready and Pogba was very average.
Our strikers weren’t very mobile – we had 3 and the two wider strikers weren’t good down the channels. Fuck, all the passes the midfield made today were with the strikers receiving them with their backs to the goal.
Our strikers lost us the game tonight. We had very few chances and attempts at goal.
On the other hand Smalling is different class – we’ll see him upstage Rio and be first choice post Feb and then next season.
Sir Ryan Giggs? No no no. Sir Paul Scholes say.
Because we’re more interested in signing midfielders like Keane that aren’t being produced at the top level anymore
We’ll bodge til those little men go out of fashion.. when someone cracks the Spain/Barca formula
Anyone else reckon we need to start spending again?
Cos despite a couple of mediocre performances, the future ain’t that bright…
LOL you only just realised?
Boss says sorry to fans
Sir Alex Ferguson apologised to United fans after the Reds were knocked out of the Carling Cup by Crystal Palace at Old Trafford.
Glenn Murray’s extra-time header, albeit from a marginally offside position, secured a famous 2-1 victory for the Eagles who put on a dogged display throughout the quarter-final tie.
Sir Alex was full of praise for Palace’s effort, but hugely disappointed by his own side’s performance.
“I don’t know where to start to be honest. My apologies go to our fans tonight because that was not a Manchester United performance,” he told MUTV.
“I don’t want to take anything away from Crystal Palace – I wish them every success and I hope they get to the final. It was a fantastic, mammouth effort from all of them. Every one of their players worked their socks off to get to the semi-finals.
“We maybe played too many short passes, but I’m not going to dwell on it and go into the ins and outs of it all.
“When it went to extra-time I thought we must win it, but it wasn’t to be. Their second goal was offside from what I’ve seen on the cameras, but I can’t take it away from Crystal Palace, they fought hard to get the result and they deserve it. It’s a very disappointing night for Manchester United.”
Its not fashion, fact is you cant tackle these days
fucking fergie. he keeps pulling this shit – playing people out of position, and putting together people who have never played together before. he’s got a fucking bloated squad and he’s trying to get everyone to play. we’ve got fucking macheda, berbatov, owen and diouf ffs. we need only one of those 4.
the younger players need to be put into a team which is functioning well, its too much to ask them to run the game. i wouldn’t be surprised if morrisson and pogba left – they aren’t going to reach their potential like this.
seven pages on a cc game against palace
can only mean one thing
Where are the “trust Sir Alex, just a bad day at the office, soon catch City” posters this morning.
It feels like the team is a car with a seized engine: a lump of going-nowhere metal.None of the permutations involving what we have seems able to do it any more. The whole club seems totally jaded and needs a miracle to get re-energised.
I feel for you guys living in Manchester: you will have to live with City fans after they probably win 2 trophies next year.
Very depressing — and soon time for suppoerters to start wielding the power they have to get changes at the club.
I remember when Reagan was US President Harvard lampoons produced this clever little satirical piece — it was a running gaag throughout their magazine that (a) something was wrong with the President after a strange event involving his motor cavalcade and (b) the animatronic version of President Reagan had disappeared from the Hall of the Presidents at Disneyland .
Maybe that’s what has happened to our manager — he has been replaced by an animatronic Ferguson. Of course, there could only be one power on Earth with the immense financial resources and clear motive to pull of such a stunt: City.
How can we be sure City aren’t controlling our manager. I mean, 6-1 to them at OT. Just think about it!
At least fergus said sorry – will be wake up now from his pissed up delusional stupour.
In fergies we trust, fergies knows best, fuxk off. It doesn’t take a thick cunt to realise we have serious structural issues with our midfield
The same time last year, we played even worse in a 4-0 defeat to West Ham at the same stage, people as usual are over reacting but obviously the performance wasn’t good enough. If Gibson or Evans don’t play for United again it won’t be a moment too soon.
Win at Villa Park at the weekend and beat Basle, this will be quickly forgotten.
Cunt faced crap filled Johnny fuckin evans..Now Im fuckin certain he goes down on SAF every day after training..
D cunt is always lost..cant pass the ball fer fucking shit..
Got to hand it to Gibshit though..Still fancies himself to be Sir Paul..d little stupid dick..
Chilly Chicken Park …..more dross….
To think we started with Berbatov,twins,
Shit Sung Park and Valencia….
We fucking cant seem to find a pass can we…??
What the fuck is SAF hoping for..??
After all these fucking embarasements ww’ll stick to Dum DUm Evans…
I think its best to stop getting r hopes high till this dross isnt out..
Oh i the entire tirade how could I have fergettin hte idiot Diouf………
Some one pls send them stewards tocheck the corner flag he was humping
Not really that arsed. It’s always the same when any team plays a load of strangers in a starting 11 and then shuffles then around so they are out of position. Amos is a good keeper, Smalling excellent, Valencia good player, Ravel Morrison and Fryer will be great as soon as they are playing first team.
Other than that the rest of them are not good enough. We have been through this period of a lack of depth before (remember Alan Smith in midfield) and need to shift most of this lot on. My main concern from the second string lot are the twins, injured way too often far to fragile same could be said of Cleverly. As for Pogba the potential is clear from his youth team performances just not translating it yet.
Actually Morrison is pretty much ready. The bigger the stage you put him on with better players the better he will become. His movement, control, vision and quick feet are brilliant. Unfortunately he sat in front of Gibson and behind some other useless sod! Gibson is gone… needs to leave fast, for his own sake. We played Ronaldo when he offered significantly less than Morrison and stuck with him when he infuriated most people with his wasteful tricks and flicks. Morrison’s flicks and tricks actually work and he has an ice cold attitude on the pitch. Needs to be on the first team bench.
I did a real LOL then!!
On a slightly lighter note did anyone else spot Nev’s reaction after the game when the presenter asked him if it was a case of Palace wanting it more? He answered the question and the presenter wrapped up for a break. Nev’s face afterwards was a classic!
lol – that is a classic, he’s truly pissed off with performance
You’re right… we’ve been through similar times in the past… and Ferguson has always seen the dreck and sorted things out.
The problem is… no one has faith in Ferguson any more.
And that’s because he keeps telling the fans a pack of lies.
This is the “best squad he’s ever had”… “no value in the market”… and the best of the bunch… “The Glazers are great owners”…
I can take the lean times on the pitch… I’m a Maple Leafs, Blue Jays fan, ffs… but I’m sick of Ferguson pissing down my back, and then telling me “it’s just a bit of rain”.
On current form if Sir Alex tried to piss down your back, he’d probably miss.
So you don’t like people pissing down your back, alf…
I heard both da silvas are injured. What a shower of fannies. Fuck these soft cunts off. They are permanently injured ffs.
Playing Diouf and Gibson to put them back in the shop window is a mistake. They lose value with every performance.
I stated earlier in another thread that I did not expect Fabio to still be playing at Left Back for United in three years time. It looks like I can shorten the duration. If the twins could just keep their injuries from overlapping, the two of them could cover Right Back, but as it is, if they are still at United in 2014-15, it will only be because no other side wants them and United can’t afford to buy replacements. I suppose they could stop getting injured, but I wouldn’t count on it.
no doubt fucked out of his head on the finest chateau le clueless
I’d get a load of guff off han for coming out with some of this taggart bashing
where’s the consistency
Football forums quite often represent the views of the angry and insane, your average supporter has faith in Alex Ferguson and rightly so, he lifted a league trophy only six months ago and the form at the start of the season showed the potential in this team. We can see the next generation of players coming through.
The views of a few on here and other forums don’t change that.
What do you mean by `your average suppoter’ ; do you mean 50% plus of the supporters feel like this: or are you referring to a type `the average supporter’: a just-so sort of bloke, who suppoirts red (united) but whose views and life are a distinct gray?
I suspect you are wrong: do a survey and you will find that over 50% of united fans at the game, or world-wide, are starting to lose faith if they haven’t lost it already.
Be honest — your use of the word `average’ is an old rhetorical trick to generalize your own feelings to a supposed majority. What you really mean by `the average supporter’ is yourself.
There is no `average supporter’ — United fans are a mixture of all shapes sizes ages races nationalities — and of course, the visually and mentally impaired, you can’t see or don’t want to see what is happening on the pitch.
my take on Sir Alex is that he is gambler by nature. A bold one too. So sometimes he just tries stuff that other people won’t even dare think or countenance and because they have come off for him a lot of the time he gets away with some very very annoying ricks. Last night for instance I felt he was just taking the piss with the line-up. The most annoying part was that he actually believed that team was good enough to win. And if they do not then tough sh*t.
Any Manchester Utd side that features both berbatov and Gibson in the same starting eleven is designed to fail. They are both too slow to progress our game quickly. Gibson we can carry because of his range of passing but Berbatov we can not because he simply won’t shift his bum. Sir Alex needs a proper assistant beside him. Phelan is a lemon. A truly atrocious man in all aspects of the game that we can see. There is no evidence that he contributes anything positive to our current team shape one bit.
On the average supporter thing, well, Squigs is probably right. The majority of the fans will still trust him. Believe me people, when this man leaves it will be downhill before we even manage to get up to a level ground again.
Angry and insane? What do you call the fans who braved the cold to pay £45 last night? Or those of us who go every week? Paying £950 to watch shite knowing that we are also being strong-armed into going into Cup matches even though we can’t afford to. Are we angry and insane?
I agree with whoever said that there is no average fan. There are those who see what is blindlingly obvious and those who choose not to because it is contrary to what we’ve seen from our great manager in the past.
like the team at the moment, no consistency
but you are still a cunt and a hypocritical, ungrateful and disloyal one to boot
If we were that shite people wouldn’t pay such cash to go see United. As fans we have stayed away at times, we couldn’t get 40,000 in for large parts of 89. If fans have no reason to be expectant some will stay away. United fans at rarely boo the shirts and rightfully will never boo the manager again hopefully.
Pre Fergie one off cup matches were all we had a chance of winning, now no one is losing sleep about going of the league cup, it’s a sign of what Ferguson has done, we have achieved a level of consistency that has been unmatched in the top leagues over the past 20 years and deep down we have bigger fish to fry.
Only 5 years ago, you could post genuine questions as to weather we are in decline. The same questions were asked only 3-4 years before that. This isn’t decline and I can’t believe that people have lost faith in Fergie. It’s a fresh overreaction and internet forums with their instant communication with posts during the game if you read a few of them your left with a fairly warped view about the state of Manchester United.
Those who have long memories know Fergie has made his name off proving people wrong time after time. He is the only manager most of us have known at United, we could have asked the same questions going out at the same stage last year with an even worse performance. (I can remember Evans making Carlton Cole look like Messi)
Anyway, I look forward to adding United to the list of teams in crisis this season,
2 Chelsea – Seemingly been shit this season, AVB barely holding onto a job yet only 10 pts off.
3 Man City – Seemingly in crisis after the Bayern game, outplayed and players not wanting to play for them.
4 Arsenal – Seemingly in crisis from day one, Wenger doesn’t have a clue according to the online world and the media.
Obviously this is last’s seasons top 4 and in the case of talk of crisis is usually ridiculously premature, we live in a media which both caters and fuels overly reactionary fan base,
I can’t get over the belief that our early season form bellied some peoples expectations and we have seen a dropping off in form, it shouldn’t have been unexpected given the loss of Scholes and EVDS. Midfields been shite for years. We were going to struggle at the start but we will be fighting it out come the end of the season.
Well written Squigs.
It is all the fault of the Glazers.
Please understand that I’m not having a go at you Cal but I’m sick to death of pointing this fallacy out time and time again. I think many fans like to use the Glazers as the easy excuse for why things are as they are.
Of course they’re not blameless, and I despise them as much as anybody else, but as I have argued many times (to the point that I am actually sick of repeating myself), neither is Fergie. I twice typed up epic posts on this recently and nobody argued any of the points I raised. I just wish people would stop giving the manager a free pass when there is much he is responsible for.
Can’t be arsed finding these posts or repeating myself all over again.
Possibly because we think your wrong, Fergie is flawed but has earned and repaid the trust of supporters many times over. Those who suggest otherwise are plain wrong.
We have had one very bad day against City, where the scoreline flattered City, but they were at least two goals better then us on the day. People are upset over the second string been knocked out, a few draws and a few poor 1-0 wins.
A bit of balance would be appropriate, as Ed highlights elsewhere we have a run of very winnable games coming up and this should shake United right back in it.
winnable on paper squigs
but the way this team plays with a lack of flair, passion, and any creativity, don’t be surprised if those wins don’t come the way we want
SAF is untouchable in terms of what he has achieved over the past 20 years, but we cannot expect him to continue without proper assistance and his side kick is absolutely useless when the chips are down and looks like he doesnt have a clue on how to change things around
Completely agree, Han.
I’m beginning to think that maybe Fergie does need someone to come in and offer some fresh ideas about how we play and maybe offer general ideas to the manager about the sort of players we should be going after.
Fergie needs some guidance IMO.
Needs guidance, I could not disagree more, I would know people who have worked with United in scouting and have even trained under him, I really see it that people in the online age equate Fergie’s age to someone who is out of touch with the game, he is very much not. He is someone who borrows from other sports, particularly in the area of training and recovery. Someone who speaks at conferences with a surprising eloquence on tactics and player nutrition, while the thought of hair dryer treatment to players on 100k a week excites people outside of matches it is not that common.
From the outside football management looks an alright earner, you know we can all do it. You watch Chelsea when they are playing well the players are all high fives and applauding each other, watch when it goes wrong the players all fight amongst themselves, making mistakes and arguing the toss.
Fergie earns his money when the chips are down, it’s what separates contenders from also rans, no dissenting voices from the dressing rooms and any such slumps are addressed internally and Ferguson will remove those he feels are dissenters with haste.
He has installed a culture of winning at United and this will still remain while he is at the helm.
Are the chips down on the 1st December 2011? Not by a long shot.
I wouldn’t cry if Phelan left by any means if any of you think I’m dodging that point.
I agree with most of what you say Squigs… I’ve always backed Ferguson to run the team… even when we’ve been rubbish… like Cal says… it’ll be a grim day when he retires.
But I can’t forgive the backing of the Glazers… just can’t.
Half a billion sucked out of the club to service those parasites’ plans… and Ferguson sings their praises.
It’s not right…
trust me, I wrote that Glazer comment with my tongue firmly in my cheek.
Oh ok mate. Sorry i thought you were being serious. I wasn’t having a go at you anyway. I was just venting and being a bit overly pissy. Had a stressful day yesterday. I hope you didn’t think i was criticising you. If you did, i am sorry.
I hear you guys reminding us of Sir Alex’s achievments and his knowledge of the game and his capcity to create new teams and work on a new United. But something does seem wrong with him and we can’t just reduce it to the Glazers and only find him culpable for deserting his strong principles when it came to them — and from our perspective an apparent kow-towing to them.
I’m not an on-line generation guy — I started supporting United in 1960, which was not long after Munich and when they were in the shadow of Spurs, the great time of the very early 60s — until Denis Law came and Busby rebuilt. There were things I thought he missed during his success years — like the pic of Ian Wright scoring against us in the Cup Final — this was the moment this player, who was to redefine Arsenal’s scoring record came on the scene — and though he made a devastating impact against us in the Cup Final once he came on, as far as I know we made no move for him — and let him become a Gunner legend. But Fergie achieved more than any other United manager. But the situation now does not seem right for him — we were off to a glorious start — and had we had cover in central midfield this could have ocntinued. Then the blip and the 6-1 disaster at OT. You say they were only 2 goals better — that is not the point: they left the field feeling a million golas better — and the jadedness, lack of conviction and direction of our guys after the game — suggests that our players feel a million goals behind City. Defeat is in the air. And there is only one word to think in such a situation: the word is change. If we don’t change we will become moribund: that’s why in the corporate world they are always thinking change. Fergie has changed United out of all recognition over the great years here — but he DOES seem to have lost something.ESPN in the US once fixed a computer to play a fantastic simulation in which the great gridiron teams of the decades were pitted against each other: inb the end the Steelers (team of the 70s) dramatically beat the 49ers (team of the 80s) by a single point scoring a touchdown in the final seconds. Now imagine we pitted this united and this Ferguson — against the younge Ferguson at the helm of his first double-winning side, the 1993-1994 team. I have such a strong feeling that it would be no contest: kanchelskis would take Evra totally to the cleaners, none of our central defenders could come with the strength of hUghes and the flair and guile of Cantona in combination: and central midfield — Keane and Ince would demolish all efforts for the current team to set up attacking play.
I have been rude to people on here — but I’m not an idiot — and i don’t think that the Fergie will come through people are idiots either — but that they are missing something. Fergie has always had great strengths coupled with failings. previously the former outweighed the latter — now, given what is happening on the field — I am not so sure. I would love to be made to swa;;ow my words — when we start making huge progress in europe and smashing teams in the PL again — but I don’t see it happening. Something is so wrong — because change is being resisted. When we beat Arsenal 8-2 I deceived myself into thinking that we had out-thought City — we had found new energy and we would be unplayable and however well their serious stars (esp Silva and Aguero) did, it would not be good enough to keep up with us. But now we are so pedestrian — we are like a sick patient in need of some radical cure. I believe this and that’s why I get so impatient with those who think that tow new midfielders in Jan will do the trick. Come jan — we will be linked to every midfielder under the sun — but will anyone actually sign?
What would you have wanted him to do? leave in a big huff? It was never going to happen, what he’s built here is nothing short of a miracle and to expect him to walk away because of the Glazers is just nonsense. It was stuff between a rock and a hard place and he chose to stay on and I’m thankful that he did.
He could have done his job with a bit more grace, and not have said some of the things he did — which were an insult to anyonbe’s intelligence.
He acted as though he had chosen sides (the Glazers over the supporters, in other words — we who idoloized him) –even if he didn’t he acted as if he had — and diminished himself as a human being as a result, because he showed himself to be a fake when it came to the crunch.
No one can think of him of the `socialist’ soccer manager who cares for the people any more and if he still thinks that of himself, then he must be deluded.
Whatever you say about Fergie — you can’t say he is a man of integrity — not after his period under the Glazers. He knows a lot about football — granted — but viewed generally, he is no way as smart as he thinks he is.
One word from Ferguson and the fans would have tore Old Trafford down, brick by brick.
He didn’t need to walk away… just remember whose side he’s SUPPOSED to be on… fought AGAINST the Glazer take over… or at the very least, NOT become their pet… promoting their bullshit financial plan.
Ticket prices going up, money squandered on outrageous interest payments, an obviously new approach in the transfer market… and yet he claims the fans should be grateful towards these terrific owners.
Are you happy?
Good post damien. I look at our wingers and remember the exciting days when we had giggs in his prime tearing defences apart and ronaldo’s debut v bolton when he was unplayable. Even in the wide areas the manager has come to accept mediocrity. Nani is still far too inconsistent. We hype him up because he is unstoppable on a good day but how often are his good days?
Valencia initially did better than the low expectations fans had of him but now seems to have forgotten how to cross a ball. Park can be useful in big games where he puts himself about but he’s not so good going forward. What we really lack is that creative spark. We are still far too reliant on rooney. Why we still have berbatov when there are players who would suit our system better is beyond me. The only good thing about having owen in the team is that he is grateful to be playing for such a big club and we didn’t pay a transfer fee. Our fringe players are mediocre. Why has Fergie allowed the calibre of players we have in the squad to slip?
i miss roy
Fergie is not exactly blameless with regard to the Glazer takeover.
Had he not taken his eye off the ball and got involved in that bullshit legal dispute with Magner and McManus (who ended up selling their shares to the Glazers), who knows what would have happened re the ownership of the club? I am not saying they definitely sold their shares because of the horse thing but it’s worth asking the question.
Personally, I don’t think he ever would have walked away in protest from what he built so carefully over 2 decades. I reckon the fact that he’d put so much into the club on and off the pitch stopped him from walking out.
As far as United fans are concerned, there are a vocal minority, and sadly only a minority, who would have done anything had Fergie left. Consider the breadth and depth of our fan base. The Green and Gold campaign was undermined by the fact that most fans didn’t have half a clue what it was about. You’d go to a match and see United fans wearing Green and Gold scarves as a fashion accessory whilst clutching their souvenirs from the Megastore. It was a piss-take…and we were a laughing stock. Only a minority would have actually educated themselves. This idea that there would have been a revolution that actually achieved anything when Glazers took over is pure fantasy. United fans will settle for anything as long as we are winning. Sad but true.
“This idea that there would have been a revolution that actually achieved anything when Glazers took over is pure fantasy. United fans will settle for anything as long as we are winning. Sad but true”
A very astute comment. But we aren’t winning and for the first time since before 2007, we don’t even look like winning.
Could this — coupled with triumph — possibly big triumph across Manchester not start to change supporters’ perceptions quite radically — or jolt them into starting to get seriously concerned about the club?
Who can forget the 2005/6 season, when United failed to qualify from the group stage of the Champions League and Chelsea ran away with the league?
At that time, fans were asking questions of the manager and some were even openly calling for him to resign. Many in the sports press thought Fergie was finished and we were in decline.
Look at what we have won after that. We have also appeared in 3 out of the last 4 Champions League finals which is an achievement. In some respects, we have been unfortunate to come up against Barcelona – otherwise I’m sure we would have won the European Cup at least once more. Fergie has incredible form for leaving critics with egg on their faces.
This shouldn’t, however, mask over the fact that we’ve played pretty turgid football since Ronaldo left and failed to find a replacement for Keane.
Should City really start to dominate, and we continue playing the rubbish football we have been playing with the squad we’ve got, some fans will again ask questions of the manager. Apparently, some fans were calling MUTV after the Newcastle game to demand that we sign midfielders. Fergie just batted that away. I am sure there will be an increasingly vocal element of disgruntled fans (fans are even unhappy now) at the matches getting on his back but Fergie won’t care about that. The owners will never sack him simply because of what he has achieved and they will lose any credibility they achieved in leaving him to run the football side of things after they took over.
As for the Glazers themselves, there will never be a consistent and sustained protest with enough numbers of people who can hurt the owners where it matters (in the pocket). I fully accept that there has been a steady decline in average attendances at Old Trafford for the last 4 or 5 years (according to the Red 11 website) but that has as much to do with rising ticket prices as anything else. Considering how much the Glazers are draining from the club, the way that they are running it as a commercial entity in terms of finding and maximising sources of revenue is actually second to none. It pains me to write that.
As long as Peter in Kuala Lumpur is running around in a United shirt, that’s all the Glazers care about, not what some fan wearing a Green and Gold scarf has to say for himself.
I loved that ’93/94 side to bits and they had great engine in the team. Frankly they are my favourite Utd SAF side to be honest. However, ESPN producers can go and suck lemons for all their simulations can bring to real life!!! I am not swayed by all that rubbish. Football has moved on in terms of fitness and diets and tactics that even this present team if properly set-up can beat the ’94 team. One way will be to play with three proper midfielders to stop the ball getting wide to the wingers or Cantona. All conjecture to be fair.
You mentioned Ian Wright. Are you serious? From 1990 to when Wrighty gave up football in 2000 I think how much did SAF teams win without him? We were not short of goals were we in winning the league and eventually the European cup?
Personally, I am only upset with the man in his insistence on the 442 formation when no proper team in this league or any top league plays that formation anymore. Playing Rooney in midfield even for now is so stupid. The season Chelsea won the double was Rooney’s most prolific but that was cause he played as the sole striker in a huge proportion of the matches and he scored all sorts of goals. We were difficult to get through and we had pace on the flanks. Why change it because of hernandez? makes no sense to me. Maybe against the lesser sides we can start with the Mexican but in big matches we need the numbers in midfield. Our manager has also lost his nerve with youngsters. Morrison SHOULD be playing NOW. He has shown that he was born to play in that Mata/Silva/Suarez in between the lines role that we have NONE now. He is ready. Let him swim or sink. We are second in the table; we are defending champions and really have very little to lose so play him. Not play him in meaningless games alongside players that are struggling for form. Let Pogba play in a league game where he has Carrick or Fletcher alongside him and let us see how much he can do. Hell, he could not have been worse than the dross Anderson was serving us. But he has lost his nerve. I can’t for the life of me understand why. I watched the arsenal central midfielders the other day and their confidence was just a slap in my face. They have played big Champions League games and premier League games. So why not ours? That used to be it.
I still think that Ciddy benefited hugely from Evans sending off. They might have won by the odd goal but certainly not the rout that followed. Here again, our manager failed his players. he did not ask them to shut up shop. We kept on attacking and left ourselves open needlessly. There is not a lot wrong with the team currently. It is the tactics and deployment of players that is letting us down.
agree completely with cal. i just can’t fathom our long term strategy right now. i first thought we were going to play a lot of youngsters (jones, smalling, da silvas, anderson, cleverley, welbeck etc.) with a sprinkling of experienced stars (rooney, rio, carrick, vidic etc.). but we’ve got way too many average players bloating the size of the squad, which means that you have people like owen, park, diouf, gibson etc. still getting games.
then you have fergie changing the fucking team every week and playing players out of position for no real reason. i really think young players need to be played in their best position and not fucked around with. arsenal persisted with ramsey and the kid looks like a real star right now.
Nice posts Calvino and Kramer.There may not be a lot wrong with the team andf the squad if they could just get their minds right — but that seems to be a huge problem. Maybe this is a natural part of a cycle after winning so much — we need now to re-emergise and that comes with invention. This is unfortunately happening at the same time that if you with forgive the pun given the Mansour ownership, that City are on jihad. They have been reborn and have all that energy of the new. 5-1 today ffs.
What amazes me is that there must be thousands of smart guys like you 2 who know the game and every week you are left speechless by Fergie’s new-style decision or non-decision making and by the players seeming to lose it completely.
What makes me angry is that Fergie speaks to the fans as if the fans are morons — when if he read some of these postings he would — and if not would — then should — be a little more respectful and maybe a little less arrogant.
Our record at Villa Park is fantastic — theirs against us is, by the same token, pathetic. Thus its a kind of litmus test for us — if they win they we got one more solid indicator as to how bad things are and how much we are sinking.
On Ian Wright — that’s what I felt at the time.
On the matchup across the years — if we took the 2007 team to play the 1993/4 side then I think the fluidity of the 2007 team in attack would have murdered Bruce and Pallister at the back. The 93/94 team never met a one man wrecking team like Cristiano Ronaldo in irresistible flow.