17 June, 2010 – “Anybody who is trying to say there has been a poor uptake is lying” – Manchester United spokesperson, denying sales had fallen short of expectations.
1 September, 2010 – CEO David Gill admits season tickets sales are just 51,800 this season, despite 54,000 season-long seats being available at Old Trafford.
United’s admission that it failed to sell out of season tickets for the first time in memory has exposed as myth both the supposed 17,000 person waiting list and supporters’ enduring ability to soak up ever-increasing prices. After all, aggregate season ticket prices have risen 48 per cent since the Glazer family’s arrival in Manchester five years ago.
Additionally, the UK economy has experienced one of the deepest recessions since the Second World War, with unemployment in Manchester now at 5.4 per cent compared to a national average of 3.6 per cent. Indeed, Gill has claimed pleasure with sales in the UK’s depressed economic environment.
“Last year our target was 54,000 season tickets, we’ve sold 51,800, which is pretty good in the current climate,” Gill claimed.
“We’ve sold more season tickets than the capacity of most Premier League grounds. Our executive seat sales are on track as compared with last year in a different market.
“I think the bare facts are that the club is in good financial shape. The ticket sales have held up.
“We sold out for Newcastle United and West Ham United but we are not complacent and we’ve got to keep working to make sure that we fill the ground for every game and we’ll do that by playing great football, attractive football, exciting football that brings fans in.”
Yet there is something insincere about the Gill’s stance, with the club’s attendances not drastically affected by either the early ’80s or ’90s UK recessions. More to the point, unemployment has not increased at all in the local area over the past year, with the economic climate no worse in summer 2010, when technically the recession has ended, than 2009 when it had not.
Anecdotal evidence points to a large number of supporters heeding the call by the Manchester United Supporters Trust (MUST) and Independent Manchester United Supporters Association (IMUSA) to swap a season ticket for a One United membership, and apply for games on a match-by-match basis.
Duncan Drasdo, chair of MUST, says that the Glazer family has now run out of room to force price increases on supporters in future seasons, with United’s core match-going support eroded over the past five years.
“Up until this season they increased ticket prices aggressively every year and could get away with it because the loyal fans they forced out were replaced by others still prepared to pay the increased price,” said Drasdo.
“The failure to sell out season tickets is very significant as the Glazers depend on an excess of demand over supply to exert control over supporters.”
Just as the Green & Gold protest movement forced the club to freeze ticket price increases for the first time in five years, then the eradication of a waiting list for season tickets will colour the club’s ongoing price strategy.
Not that the shortfall in sales will make a significant financial difference to the family’s plans of course. United’s revenues will suffer little for 2,000 season tickets remaining unsold, unless the corresponding sale of matchday tickets also falls short against the least attractive opposition this season.
Evidence points to the club’s £104 million match revenue holding reasonably steady in the current financial year unless the Sir Alex Ferguson’s side crashes out of the Champions League in the group stage. The Glazers’ business model is essentially predicated on United qualifying for Europe’s premier competition and then making the quarter-finals at least.
Yet, should the failure to invest in the transfer market this summer on established stars impact more heavily than expected, the aggressive marketing campaign to sell season tickets this summer may have to increase a notch more come June 2011.
62 thoughts on “So who was lying Mr. Gill?”
So much for the “waiting list”
Gill is a cunt
“Anecdotal evidence points to a large number of supporters heeding the call by the Manchester United Supporters Trust (MUST) and Independent Manchester United Supporters Association (IMUSA) to swap a season ticket for a One United membership and apply for games on a match-by-match basis.”
“United’s revenues will suffer little for 2,000 season tickets remaining unsold, unless the corresponding sale of matchday tickets also falls short against the least attractive opposition this season.”
Seems like these two statements cancel each other out. If the team wins, they’ll sell out, even if they’re playing a relegation-threatened club.
No one’s thrilled with the management situation, but this post lacks a reason to live.
Zombie Cucumber – Not at all. I’m saying season ticket sales have dropped (obvious) but that demand for match day tickets is also falling. Anyone who goes to Old Trafford will tell you there’s loads of gaps all over the place. Last Saturday the attendance was given as 75,061. The gaps suggested much less. I’ve spoken to tons of fans who once found it impossible to get tickets in the ballot but now have no trouble at all. The same was essentially true last season too.
OK, point taken. If seats are empty when they’re playing well, your post makes a good point.
“The failure to sell out season tickets is very significant as the Glazers depend on an excess of demand over supply to exert control over supporters.”
That’s why I’m only going to away games until the Gimps are gone.
But without a season ticket how on earth do you expect to get games to away games?
EDIT: Sorry, that was meant to say ‘…tickets to away games’
Josh – there’s at most 3,000 tickets for each away game, 51,800 season ticket holders, 8,000 exec seat holders who get first dibs. Even with the loyalty pot it’s nigh on impossible for average season ticket holders to get away tickets without paying touts anyway.
Last December I bought 2 tickets online for Hull away and it costed me around 300 Euro. Since I was going to be there for a holiday ( I live in Malta ) I deceided to get them even though I knew it was a rip off
nothing wrong with our transfer dealing’s Ed, we are buying talented young players for the future and that is a good thing, we have never spent stupid money and never will. Gill isn’t a liar by any means, he is doing what he haves to do at the current poìnt in time. Glazers time is up do and they should do the right thing and sell the club to someone who can afford us and sort this whole stupid debt out. fans should still watch the games whether by season ticket or match-match bases, support the club.
“we have never spent stupid money and never will”
Fergie has broken the British transfer record five times, if I’m not mistaken, and even when he hasn’t broken it, he’s often spent big money.
Not that I’m condoning it, or saying it’s the best policy but those are the facts.
Nobody should be surprised at this. Gill may well be good at his job, but most of us have known for a long time that as a person he really isn’t the most honest, trustworthy or respectable of people (and that’s being polite)
Oh ffs…here we go again
It’l blow over
it wont…..it’ll turn into the same old argument with the same old mongs posing the same old shit
“Debt is the road to ruin”
He’s in a difficult position, but I’ve really gone off this man.
Josh, Fergie has broken the bristish record a few times that is correct but even by those standards it wasnt stupid money, the 90’s big spenders was Newcastle & Blackburn, 00’s big spenders where/are Leeds, Chelsea, Man C. we have spent big but only a couple of times and more often than not we have spent average amounts of cash on players. I am fully aware of who we bought and how much we spent to sign them, I am not saying we hasnt spent big on the rare occassion to get some one but thats all it is – rare
captainhormone, may I ask what it is your on about?
Has everybody forgotten we spent 30m on berbatov only 2 summers ago? Last time I checked the Glazers were in charge then. There’s a lot wrong with their ownership and the way they bought the club but the whole transfer market argument is a big load of rubbish as far as I’m concerned.
Mark – Here’s some facts since you think its rubbish – net transfer spending over the last five years (six inc this transfer window):
05/06 – £1,000,000 net spend
06/07 – £4,100,000 net spend
07/08 – £26,550,000 net spend (inc Tevez loan fee)
08/09 – £33,750,000 net spend
09/10 – (-) £64,500,000 net spend
10/11 – £10,350,000 net spend
TOTAL – £11,250,000 net spend
Average = £1,875,000 per season net spend
And during the corresponding period under a PLC pre-Glazer:
04/05 – £21,350,000 net spend
03/04 – £13,350,000 net spend
02/03 – £27,050,000 net spend
01/02 – £29,300,000 net spend
00/01 – (-) £8,300,000 net spend
99/00 – £16,050,000 net spend
TOTAL – £98,800,000 net spend
Average = £16,466,666 per season net spend
At the same time aggregate ticket prices have gone up 48 per cent. Value?
I’m not agreeing with Mark, but Ed, that total net spend figure is distorted ridiculously by Ronaldo’s transfer – a huge anomaly in the grand scheme of things. The question, of course, is why that amount wasn’t reinvested in players, but that’s another story.
I’ll tell you why, because it wasn’t needed. Once again the whole transfer market issue is just a massive pile of steaming bullshit because we’ve managed to be successful on the pitch. Are people suggesting we spend money on players we don’t need like Barca and Madrid?
And yet in terms of on field success, you could argue that we were more successful under the American ownership given that the champions league was secured in addition to the 3 league titles in the given period. Goes to show, you won’t always buy success
ed, dont let facts get in the way of a good argument, these mongs clearly know more than we mere mortals do
you are a scourge on the good people in this world called Mark
…and you are just a cunt…..
That IS the point; we seem to be hoarding cash rather than investing in players – hoarding hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, I wonder what for, could it be to pay for some shithouse shopping malls in the US of A or to pay the “management fee” to the Glazers?
I’m not as convinced as Ed but it is at least arguable that the Glazers LBO of United has directly influenced the lack of investment in players, as compare to the PLC days.
Where the anti-Glazers’ argument is less strong is that under PLC or Glazer whe have had a similar amount of success so actually in terms of results has it made that much of a difference? On a relative basis the Glazer years have been just as successful or comparatively successful. This is the reason why Fergus backs them – far as he is concerned PLC or Glazer he has continued to be successful. Fergus also hates the PLC owing to pre-transfer dealing disclosures being made so that had to go.
@Mandeep I’m not arguing with the point that we are investing a lot less in players than we used to – that is clear. All I was saying is that over a short period of time – 6 seasons – the hugely inflated transfer fee for Ronaldo skews the per season average somewhat.
danniitronix – the issue is when the good players start retiring (Giggs, Neville, Scholes, VDS) or ailing (Ferdinand) or leaving (Ronaldo, Tevez) and we don’t invest appropriately then decline is surely a matter of time. We can try and buck the market, invest in ‘youth’ and hope that works out for us. Hasn’t for Arsenal. Perhaps we’re just inherently better. But I suspect that lack of investment will start to impact the team’s performance eventually.
That’s all ifs ands and buts. We already have Nani in place of Giggs, Rafael in place of Neville etc. How about trusting the fucking manager? He’s earned it no?
Yeah you’re right we’re not investing in any new players. The three signings this summer must have nbeen a mirage.
Since Glazer take over: Van Der Sar 2m, Flopster 1m, Park 4m, Vidic 7m, Evra 5.5m, Carrick 14m rising to 18.6m, Larsson -loan-, Kuszczak 2.125m, Anderson 17m, Nani 17.3m, Hargreaves 17m, Tevez -2yr loan for 6m-, Manucho -free-, Possebon 3.5m, Da Silva’s 5.2m, Berbatov 30.75m, Tosic 8m, De Laet 250k, Owen -free agent-, Valencia 15m, Obertan 3m, Doiuf 2m, Smalling 10m, Chicharito 6m, Bebe 7.4m. This is the list of the signings under those Glazers and the accurate amounts, around £188m spent in 5 yrs.
AJ – see my reply to Mark earlier. Net transfer spending is key because it’s about the talent pool available. Clubs can spend loads and still have a shit team if they sell their best players too. Just see Liverpool for evidence.
But we only sold one of our best players and we sold him for 80m which vastly skews the net spend figure. I hate these fucking arguments.
i think we fans have step up the portest in the last 3 ganmse there has being no anit glazers banners less green gold around old trafford on match day. i know a few thounda has left. but we should contunie what they started
. i must admitt i was refused bring my love united hate glazer banner in 2 the ground. against the west hanm and fulhanm ganmes. were have a meeting this saurday in sale . how to setp up the porest. if any people have any ideas he can pass them . i will write them down. and tell my anti glazer canmpain club. its time we rid of the glazers for good
The argument that since the Glazers took over, we have been more or less just as successful is also misleading.
In the 20+ years that Ferguson has been in charge, we have no doubt become used to success and rather spoiled, but in that time, football has changed a lot, and so has the top tier English league.
15/20 years ago, the PL was the third league after Italy and Spain… Manchester United has been responsible for a lot of that growth in the popularity of the English game world wide.
Most of that growth was achieved BEFORE the Glazers came, (in fact, it was probably what attracted those cunts in the first place).
In my opinion, even though the Glazers may have increased income with their ruthless, and cynical financial strategies, they have stifled our on field growth.
Yes we may still be competetive… but think back to pre Glazer times, and ask yourself, what was our limit? What was our ambition?
I can honestly say, that I thought there was NO limit to our future. It seemd like only a matter of time before we could attract, and sign ANY player. We were looking at Ronaldinho, Robben, Essien, Ballack… etc… and though we may not have signed them then, it looked certain that sooner rather than later, we’d be competeing directly with Barca, Real, AC, Juventus, for the best players in the world. Rio, Veron, Ruud, Rooney, Ronaldo, even Berbatov… can any of you see us signing a player of that calibre now?
Now… it’s all misery and depression that we’re a second rate team, behind Barca, Real, City, and Chelsea.
And don’t let Fergusons’ spin, fool you… he’d love to spend like City, if he could… instead of opperating on a budget.
That’s the key for me… with the income United generates… we should be setting budget targets for other clubs to only dream of, not scrimping to save money.
Alfonso – “we should be setting budget targets for other clubs to only dream of, not scrimping to save money.”
Quite. I’m not some plastic that thinks we should buy the a-z of any player that’s fashionable but football is a simple equation. Transfer investment + wage investment = success. Spoilt? Yes probably, but what’s wrong with wanting our club to get the best players. This PR bullshit about never buying the best only making it… its like some Stalinist propaganda that fans are buying into. Facts are facts as Rafa used to say and we’re not buying the best any more. Not only is net spending down but if the next brilliant player comes along, kid or established, I just don’t see us paying the money and being competitive. I don’t know where the next Rooney is coming from but I’m certain that United won’t go and pay £30m for a 17 year old again.
Aj you dope… you’re not even including outgoings players.
And what about the promise of £25 million a year transfer kitty?
Do all the math, not just the bit that suits you.
@ Alfonso Bedoya …well said .
the ronaldo money does skew it a bit but so does the berbatov money, we wouldn’t have signed berbatov if we hadn’t agreed to sell ron (if only)
That has to be true but I’m just saying that this line is why Fergal is probably using to justify to himself that things are dandy.
Any business needs capital investment, machinery, technology – a business plan. Since the essence of any club is – players, manager, ground, training infrastructure, lack of investment in any of these key areas will haunt any club.
I still think that we need to finish third or worse in the EPL or get knocked out of group stages in UCL before the majority of fans are and Fergie is actually shocked to the core; only then will militant action be taken to get the funds and get Fergal to spend the cash.
This is extremely hypothetical, but something to consider.
If not for the Glazers, we might still have Ronaldo.
He always said it was his dream to play for Real, but there was also no dubt that we couldn’t compete with the money they were offering him… or the team they were offering him to play with.
But between Ronnie and Rooney, we had two of the three most marketable players in the world, (Beckham not included)… if not for the Glazers, what could we have offered Ronnie, both money and potential team?
I think the money was too much – 80m.
Winger has the same issue – Fab wants to go but Barca are broke – they offered 25m for
Fab, fuck right off – had they offered 40m plus, guaranteed he would have gone. Le Arse will still be paying for their stadium in 5 years time.
Barca are broke to shit, you may have head but they just took out a 100m loan from a number of european banks to guess what – pay their players.
from a finance side Barca are fucked and it is a combination of luck and skill that got them a home grown generation of players that are the best in the world, otherwise, they would be cunted.
danniitronix – Barca/Real Madrid broke yes but the local banks will underwrite them forever and they both generate more cash than United. The whole story about taking out a loan to pay players was over dramatised though. Barca was still able to write off a €60m loss on Ibrahimovoch and buy Villa/Mashcerano. With the revenue generated they’re not going bust any time soon and will keep on spending freely.
My take on Ferguson is that, I think he’s being played.
Imagine the scenario…
Glazer… “Sir Alex… it’s great to see you again… can I offer you some tea?… biscuits?… some of this 18 year old, single malt?”
Fergie… “Och aye… just leave the bottle”
Glazer… “Right, ok… we’re so pleased to have the greatest soccer coach the world has ever seen in charge of this great club… and it gives us great confidence to know that you’re on board with our plan… mmm would you like ice with that?”
Fergie… “Och no… but d’ya got any haggis?”
Glazer… “urm, ahh, no… but we can send out for some if you’d like.”
Fergie… “Nay mind…. let’s just get doon t’business about transfer money.”
Glazer… “Well that’s the thing Sir Alex… we were talking to some of our American friends, and we mentioned you, and they all said they’d heard all about you… you are well known even in Florida… but they’re not big soccer fans… they say that there’s no strategy in soccer”
Glazer… “Yeah… they said that whoever’s got the most money, has the best team, and wins all the cups.”
Fergie… “Cheeky Yanks… no offence mind…”
Glazer… “non taken… more scotch?”
Fergie… “nay mind, I’ll help m’self”
Glazer… “mmm… yes I can see that… thirsty aren’t you?…”
Fergie… “So… did ya put your Mates right?”
Glazer… “well of course… we told them that you were the master… the supreme tactician, and that’s why Manchester United has been so successful.”
Fergie… “Good one… bet that shut them up”
Glazer… “well no actually… they said that if it wasn’t for money, you wouldn’t have won anything.”
Fergie… “WHAT?” *takes a big swig straight from the bottle*… “did ya tell em about me success with Aberdeen?”
Glazer… “urm… oh yeah… sure… more scotch?”
Fergie… *another glug from the bottle*… “Bah! fook’em… what do Yanks know about football anyway?… hic!”
Glazer… “mmm, quite… anyway, one of them said, if Ferguson was any kind of coach, he could win cups with tactics and strategy, and not lots of money”
Fergie… “Fooking bastard… you tell the cunt…hic… I’m Alexander Chapman Ferguson, and I can kick your fookin arse into next week…”
Glazer… “ummm, maybe you’ve had enough”
Fergie… “Fook off… get me…hic… some fookin haggis ya wee cunt” *takes another gulp*
Glazer… “yeah, ok… anyway Sir Alex… if you think we need to buy more players, so you can win cups, then…”
Fergie… “You sit the fook doon, ya cunt… hic… we’ll show them smarmy yanks a thing or two… hic… you go oot and sign me a couple a no marks… hic… aye… hic… I’ll win the fooking title on me own, just like I used to…zzz”
Glazer… “Sir Alex?”…
Fergie… “zzzzzz… hic….. fooking cunts….zzzzzzzzz… I’m Alex… hic… Ferguson…zzzzzzzzzzzzzz”
Glazer… *smiles*… “whatever you say Sir”
hehe, fergies such a ginsoak cunt
you are forgetting that the Spanish local banks are themselves fucked. They were the only ones that failed the ECB stress tests along with the greek ones.
the point was that it was the first time barca had gone to the external loan markets for funding of this type. the reason – well the spanish banks have run out of cash funding the likes of Barca and RM which is tantamount to illegal state aid.
it’s a complete joke because the spanish banks will get hand outs from the ECB which in effect goes to prop up the spanish football association all of which is on a net basis not profitble – of course they cook the books because net basis for them means not counting the loans (read subsidies) from the govt.
barca and RM are so powerful that no spanish bank in their right mind would ever Not lend – in case of Barca all of Catalonia would withdrawn their deposits in an instance.
nice one Alf <hic>
Some of the posts and disrespect shown towards our manager in here is absolutely staggering. Also what’s this obsession with transfer spending? Seriously, who gives a fuck? We’ve been successful haven’t we? Who cares how much we are or aren’t spending. We’ve spent 30m or close to it this summer between Smalling, Hernandez and Bebe, how much did people want? How much did people think we need? Does everyone think they know more than Fergie what our squad currently needs?
Most of you come across like a bunch of spoiled little children looking longingly at City and all their new toys. Do you seriously think as seems to be the case that we’re just going to magically implode once the likes of Neville, Scholes and Giggs retire? Has nobody even looked at our squad and all the players between 20 and 30 we have at the top of their game? You cunts can carry on moaning about us not signing players we don’t need, I’ll carry on supporting the shirts thanks.
Mark – It’s about the future of the team and where the club is going and throwing around insults just makes you sound like another plastic who worships at the altar of Fergie, whatever the actual facts. I’m pretty sick of you using the words fucking and cunt repeatedly simply because you don’t agree with somebody else’s view. You’re new here so if you want a grown up debate fine, if you just want to trade insults go elsewhere or get deleted. Simple really.
So now lets get to some more facts because you’re very light on it. Spending this summer was £24m, less £14m recouped. So net £10m. Net spend is relevant because its a benchmark of continuing squad quality. If you buy a house, but sell the garage its not worth the same and isn’t going to be as nice to live in.
I haven’t heard anybody here advocating spending money like City. Most people on this site understand the financial implications of the Glazer family’s ownership and understand long-term lack of investment will impact on the club and they’re worried about it and understand that Fergie is playing the politician right now.
If you want to remove all the profit from the Ronaldo transfer you get a net £68m differential – and that’s generous because the whole market rose in value during the time he was at the club (i.e to replace him, United had to spend more on Valencia than would have been the case five years earlier). Net spend under the Glazers would be a tad over £12m per season – and that’s including the Valencia deal. Still less than under previous regimes, in a more inflated market, against greater competition.
But that’s really not the point. The point is that United sold the club’s best player, and is using the profit to pay down debt while increasing ticket prices on aggregate under the current owners.
If you can’t get that, or cant’ make a counter argument without calling people cunts then don’t bother trying.
Love the figures from Ed. These are FACTS! Plain and simple.
Gill is a business man, he’s a lying b*sterd and I think its fare to say like them all! His son is coming up the ranks at the moment and I have been thinking to myself about it, will the fans get on the young lads back due to his father being a prick? Hope not but I’m just saying!
I support a football club, not a business. Who cares if we spent more net per season in the five seasons before the Glazers than in the five seasons since? The five seasons before we almost the worst period in footballing terms since Ferguson came to the club, and the five seasons since have been as good as any in footballing terms. If spending more from 2000-2005 had produced three PL championships in a row and CL championship followed by a CL finalist, then it would be a strategy worth imitating. It didn’t though, so why are we holding up that period as the period we need to imitate?
Fergie spent a lot after 2000 because he needed to remould the team to be competitive in Europe, that sort of fundamental rebuilding isn’t needed now. He also realised that expensive transfers like Veron and Tevez frequently didn’t fit in or turned out to be mercenary pricks, while the lads he trained from a young age like Scholes, Giggs, and Neville still left it all on the pitch for him every day they were asked to. I’m sure the Glazers love the idea of buying young cheaper players, but there are also perfectly good footballing reasons for doing so, so all in all everybody is happy. The fact that we splashed out on Berba, Hargreaves, Valencia and so on shows that we’re still willing to spend big for an established player if Fergie thinks a piece of the puzzle is missing.
Meanwhile we slate our own young lads like Fletcher and Gibson, while jizzing over some other club’s expensive young lad like Ozil and Benzema. Let’s just wait and see whose careers work out best — usually it’s the one Fergie’s brought up.
I’ve no love for the Glazers, and debt concerns me, obviously. But the fact is there’s no evidence yet that Fergie is seriously starved for funds. You keep saying the Glazers are taking all the money out of the club to pay off their debts, but the fact is they haven’t done it yet, they’ve only taken out a relatively trivial amount and all the Ronaldo money is still sitting there. The reality is the club has wasted something like £50M at least on bad exchange rate hedges, so the kind of money the Glazers and Gill are looking at is much bigger picture shit than an extra £5M or £10M to buy some player. Claiming that we can’t afford to buy a Ronaldo or Kaka is one thing, but arguing that didn’t buy Ljajic or Ozic because of £5M is fucking stupid — that kind of cash is a rounding error for the Glazer’s tax and exchange rate calculations each year.
But the thing that really annoys me is turning first on Gill and then on Fergie because they refuse to say what you want them to say. it’s fine to disagree, but the about of insults and vitriol thrown at these fine servants of the club is all out of proportion. “Worship at the altar of Fergie?” You’re fucking right I do.
I see Giggs has been saying we have a strong squad this week. Is he a cunt now too?
Besides what club are we comparing our spending to? Because we spend competitively compared to every club except Madrid, Barca, and City, and those three clubs live in financial fantasy land. It’s not like we’d be competing with them if we were still a PLC. The reality is that the more conservative spending is a Europe-wide phenomenon, it’s not just us. And since the Glazers didn’t buy up every other club in Europe, maybe they’re not really the cause.
Hi Ed – I like this post. However, it would also be nice to see how much the overall salaries of players have changed in the post-Glazer-takeover era. But then again that might be reserved for another post. For example, a lot of people talk about how getting Michael Owen on the free was a no risk transfer. I don’t completely agree since we would be spending quite a load of cash by paying him the salary we are.
Viral – Interesting. I do have some data on the overall transfer budget, will dig it out and post when I have time. I don’t have detailed info on individual players but the overall summary is that wages costs had been rising significantly under the Glazers. That reflects the market. However, its interesting to note that the club has cut bonuses this year, and each of the new signings are on relatively low wages – circa 10-15k per week. When Scholes, Giggs, Neville and VDS retire that’l be 4 very high earners off the wage books.
gills son will play 500 game for utd, oh yes, there’s no doubt about that
We had the best player in the world during all that success… where is he now?
the team that won loads of stuff was built pre glazer, the glazer era teams being put together now, it features players like berbatov valencia and hernandez, its not very good
Again….knobhead, dont let the facts cloud the mongs opportunity of an arguement/glazer shagfest